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Thread: Ford V6 4.2Liter Tapping Noise

  1. Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Victoria BC Canada
    Posts
    1,247

    Swap information is always good to know but the mounting brackets exhaust AC pump ect is still needed for the swap from the donor car/truck or at least some extra time to swap pulleys ect.I can see if a person is in love with his/her vehicle but for the average person who has a issue with this style engine all the extra labour time v just repairing the original engine is not cost effective for most people. My shop does this kind of work every day and as time goes on people just want there car back the way it was for the last 200,000 or so miles/KMh. Custom work is an art and if the customer base is there then great but I get asked if I am in the middle of nowhere and Jonny,s gas and burger shop that has a bay out back and a repair guy there is he going to be able to fix my truck/car??At least thats the way it is in my area. 99.99% of the time they just say fix it the way it was cause I don't want to have the wife and kids stuck some where.Just my 2 cents
    ProPower Engine& Machine
    In canada Eh!!

  2. Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Whitehouse, Ohio
    Posts
    8

    Ford V6 4.2 Liter tapping Noise

    Hello Everyone,

    It has been a while since I was able to update my 4.2 engine experiences. Sorry it took so long but we had some other problems that could not wait. But first, I want to extend my heartfelt thanks to all those so very kind to reply with advice and suggestions. They all helped and are very much appreciated. Currently, the engine has been completely and totally disassembled to the last tiny screw. The block was completely bare. Nothing remained in it. The factory original crank had 3-4 very light and thin grooves on the #1 rod journal that you could barely detect with a fingernail. They were so light I thought they could just be polished out. But, the engine shop I initially went to with the block and crank, recommended I replace the crank. In retrospect, I may have been taken advantage of with them selling me a reground crank instead of just polishing or regrinding only the #1 rod journal. No bearings had spun and all the other journals were in excellent shape. The tapping noise we heard when the egnine was running came from the bottom of the pin boss for the #1 piston, hitting the crank counterweight each time it came around. The bent rod made the overall length shorter, pulling the piston closer to the crank. The piston had some dime size scuffing on the pin boss with no other damage evident.

    The water pump studs that go through the timing chain cover snapped off inside the timing cover when I tried to remove the water pump even though I used heat and tried tapping them first to shock any corrosion loose. The water pump eventually came off but had to be replaced. The bolt/stud holes in the timing cover and water pump, were filled with corrosion from reaction between the metal studs/bolts and the aluminum where coolant had seeped in and they simply would not loosen. They all broke off inside the timing cover and the timing cover also had to be replaced. Brand new replacement parts include a timing chain, two timing gears, the timing chain tensioner, oil pump, timing chain cover, water pump, and a crankshaft sensor when that snapped in half trying to remove it from the old cover, ring set, bearing set, gasket sets, and some other miscelleanous items. Today I took all the rods and piston assemblies to an AERA member shop, and had them measured. After torquing the rod caps, three of the rods have bearing journals .001" to .0015" past the 2.4724 maximum, when measured in the same line as the long axis of the rod where the load is maximized. Measuring horizontally, across the cracked joints for the rod cap, they were all within tolerance. So, now I might need three replacement reconditioned rods and two others that were in tolerance might need reconditioning to be perfectly round, with only the #6 rod perfectly round and within tolerance. I had purchased a new piston assembly and a reconditioned rod for a little over $100 to replace the bent #1rod, but guess what? The new replacement rod is the worst of all of them in exceeding tolerance on the veertical axis and is .0015" out of round. That was a surprise and it will need to be replaced. All the pistons appear to be reusable. The block has had all rust deposits removed, was solvent washed, and then washed with hot water and Tide, and thoroguhly rinsed and sprayed with light oil. Then all cylinders and lifter bores were repeatedly wiped with white towels soaked in light oil until they came out perfectly clean. This took a while. To install the new crank, Lubriplate was wiped onto all crank bearings, and the crank main journals, and the crank installed into the block. Extreme care was taken to avoid any scratches to journal and bearing surfaces.

    One thing I am wondering about is this - the engine ran fine before. In fact, it ran beautifully, was smooth, and quiet. During inspection I found that all the other bearings showed high wear rates, with some of them having worn through their babbitt and showing copper, making me wonder about the vehicle mileage, or it's care. But, because it ran so well and expenses are mounting I am wondering how bad would it be to reuse the existing rods with new bearings. The bearing clearances had to be pretty large with all the previous wear we found, the rods were just as much out of tolerance and out of round as they are now, and yet the engine was using absolutely no oil, ran smoothly, and gave decent fuel mileage. Would it really be that bad to reuse the rods? This van is not used daily. It is used maybe 1-2 days per week and I would be surprised if it accumulates more than 7000-8000 miles per year. The heads are flat and the intake manifold will be checked next week. The opinons I have from AERA members who have looked at the block and other parts is that the previous owner failed to flush his coolant every year or two and the acids from it, along with normal thermal cycling, degraded the head and/or intake gaskets until they failed at the #1 cylinder and allowed coolant to leak into #1 cylinder. When it was driven daily this was not a problem because the leak was so slow the coolant was all blown out at startup the next day. But when I let it sit for five days, with the #1 piston near top dead center, enough coolant leaked into the cylinder to hydrolock it at startup and that bent the rod. No other cause has been found. The block has not been magnafluxed or pressure tested because the engine shop that did the initial inspection did not think it was warranted. Even though they grind crankshafts, they recommended replacing the crank, whcih I did.

    But now, faced with another $500 in expenses and a very upset wife (not kidding here), I have to ask, would it really be that bad to reuse the existing rods in their existing condition, with new bearings throughout? It has to be better than it was. The three worst rods measure 2.4285 on the vertical axis. The others are all at 2.4270 or 2.4275. The high end of the Ford tolerance for connecting rods is 2.4274 or 2.4275 depending on which source you use. So, the worst rods are just .001 out of tolerance and .001" out of round. That is only .0005" per bearing.

    Any opinions or suggestions will again be truly appreciated.

    And so it goes.

  3. Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Victoria BC Canada
    Posts
    1,247

    Well my best advice is to resize the rods because it would be like reusing a condom. It might work or it may not! Ask the wife about that one. Rings bearings ect are not generally reused because they deform to conform to the wear of the components and you won't pay more than $150.00 to have all the rods sized and re+re of pistons so it is $$$ well spent. It this is not a high priority it would seem that this vehicle is up and running right away so like we have all said before just do it right and know there is not going to be grief when the wife takes the kids to soccer or whatever and is stranded and the tow bill exceedes the parts cost to get the thing home. Happy Tinkering
    ProPower Engine& Machine
    In canada Eh!!

  4. Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Whitehouse, Ohio
    Posts
    8

    1997 Ford E150 4.2 tapping noise, update

    Hello Everyone,
    Well, it has been nine months since I finished rebuilding my 4.2 as a result of a lower intake gasket failure allowing coolant to leak into the number one cylinder combustion chamber and hydraulically lock the engine. Final result is one rod was bent and one was out of round beyond saving. The crank was trashed. The engine was totally disassembled to the very last screw, right down to a completly bare block. The block was thoroughly inspected and deck height reground. It was ball honed, cleaned and washed in hot water with Tide, then oiled. New cam bearings were installed. All rods were rebuilt and two replaced. Every single part in front of the block was replaced including the front timing chain cover which I found brand new on eBay with an installed brand new oil pump for just $90.00. Also installed new timing gears, chain tensioner, timing chain, crank sensor, water pump, and all new bolts, plus anything I might have forgotten to list. The dibstick tube had to be replaced in the block and the water pump tubes for the hoses were badly corroded necessitating water pump replacement. When the crank sensor was replaced I borrowed the crank sensor alignment gage from a local Ford dealer that allows simple alignment of the crank sensor to the correct angle. This is a must and most dealers will loan you this simple, but very expensive tool. Be nice to the Ford parts guy and he will help you with this one. The rods were rebuilt/replaced as needed and pressed onto the piston pins and pistons, by Motor Rebuilder's, an AERA member. All new rings installed. The cam, pistons, lifters, pushrods, rockers, heads, and manifolds were all reused. All reused parts were miked to be sure they were in tolerance. New spark plugs were installed. The heads were checked for flatness and were perfect. New head bolts were used. A simple method was used to get the correct final torque. The book called for two torque sequences then a final degree rotation for the last torque sequence to properly stretch the bolts. I just set the torque wrench so it was parallel to the crank and pulled it around the required degrees, estimating it by the position of the torque wrench. When you do this you must be very careful to have a precise alignment with the crankshaft so the torque will be the same for all bolts. It worked perfect. The engine was reassembled with all new after market gaskets. Too late I learned that it would have been better to use Felpro intake gaskets. Lubriplate was used to lubricate all bearings and rubbing surfaces like cam lobes and lifters, during installation. It started instantly. Gentle and variable speed for the first 500 miles. After 25 miles the oil and all filters were changed. Another 100 miles and a second oil change. Then 1000 miles and a third oil change. To date, January 3, 2008, the engine runs fine, has accumulated six thousand miles, does not burn oil but when it sits for a week or so it sometimes kicks back on the first start of the day. There has been a very slight loss of coolant acorss the past nine months, all of which appears to have occured during the hot summer months. No coolant loss has been detected in the past 6 weeks of almost daily driving. It has been suggested that if coolant loss does begin to occur, to replace the lower intake gaskets with Felpro copper gaskets which should last the life of the engine. The rebuild cost me $1500 in parts and around $150 in labor for things I could not do like press in new cam bearings, grind the block, press the rods, and piston assemblies back together, etc. All parts, except those only available through Ford, and labor services were through Motor Rebuilder's of Toledo, Ohio, an AERA member since 1947 or so. Just prior to engine installation, a new front pump transmission seal was installed as cheap insurance.

    I learned what was wrong with my engine through this site and the wonderful sharing of knowledge by it's members, and I am very grateful for their kindness and all the knowlege and answers I have found here.

  5. Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Victoria BC Canada
    Posts
    1,247

    GLAD TO HELP! Just take care of that start up issue and you will be fine.
    ProPower Engine& Machine
    In canada Eh!!

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